"Ground Zero" Community Center...N.Y.C.

To the members; There is a controversy raging over the proposed community center a couple of blocks from "ground zero" in N.Y.C. As one of the co-founders of the group, I felt it incumbent upon me and Robert to investigate what, if any, reservations we should have in this matter. The answer in short is....none.
Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf is a member of the Sufi sect of Islam, as any one who is Muslim knows they and the Ammahdiya sect, are the two most peaceful sects there are in the followers of Islam. I have researched with Robert and by myself the history and writings of this man over the last ten days and from what I can find we as members of The People of Abraham, Christians, Muslims and Jews, should and must, welcome this center that is dedicated toward understanding and co-responsibility of human beings directed by God to be the peace bringers of the world. All of our books command us to do this, and being a devout Christian I can take no other course of action. I am hopeful that all will see the wisdom of this and join us here to fight the wrongful branding of over a billion people with the wrongdoing of those who would pollute their faith much the same as some pollute our Christian faith and that of Judaism as well. We must stand as People of the Book for peace... God commands it!

Reverend Bruce H. Holzrichter Sr. Tree of The Mustard Seed Ministries and The People of Abraham, Christians Muslims and Jews.

Data bases to check for up to date information on Islamic studies

I am posting some great sources of good information not the usual garbage usually seen when you go looking for information on the Qu'ran and the Hadiths to accomapy it and the things you are searching for.

As any one knows accurate information is vital to learning about Islam for every one who would learn about this faith system and the people who follow it around the world.

Many come here to learn and that is of course the purpose of this, and the other sites that I and others run....to learn.

These are searchable data bases that are free to use for you and following those, are Amazon printed materials for you to pyrchase if you wish.

Searchable Qur'an and Hadith collections:
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/
Searchable Qur'an translations:
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/quran/
Searchable Hadith Translations:
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/sunnah/

Translations of the Qur'an in print:

http://www.amazon.com/Meaning-Holy-Quran-Abdullah-Yusuf/dp/1590080254/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282332329&sr=8-3

http://www.amazon.com/Message-Quran-Muhammad-Asad/dp/1904510353/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282332367&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Sublime-Quran-Laleh-Bakhtiar/dp/1567447503/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282332387&sr=1-1


Be well friends......Rev. Bruce.........Tawodi

I was asked a question recently and gave my answer as you can see.

I was just looking at it and thought it might go some way toward explaining my position and beliefs regarding the interfaith work I do and why I have no problem accepting that others do not think or sometimes even believe as I do and why it is alright with me.....more than alraight as the short piece explains. ENJOY!

It is important to note here several things that work toward tolerance, a word which by the way, I hate!! I simply "accept" that others think differently and as long as they are not violent that's just fine! I don't simply "tolerate" them! I find that a terrible way to treat people.

Many people believe many things. Are they right? Who can say with certainty.

What I do know is this, my faith is certain and unshakable. The reason for this is not unique to me, but it is unusual in the general population. I have had two major Epiphanies and a few small ones and many, many "God moments".

During candidacy for ministry one is compelled as part of the investigatory process, to go back in life and identify these moments. As you do, it becomes clear that we have prevenient grace with us all, that steers us in directions we would not have normally chosen. And events that can be clearly defined as such.

They are not, as is commonly thought, stepping in front of a car for instance and enduring a near miss. They are more complicated and usually concealed to some degree and require discernment to dig out of ones past.

Epiphanies are of course shattering events as they leave you (at least me) questioning your own sanity, in my case for nineteen years then a second one of which there is no doubt as there were witnesses, that were strangers to me, who saw something taking place. In other words disinterested people witnessed it.


Now that being said I have met others who have had moments of epiphany and with out exception, every one of them is as I am. OPEN!! Totally aware that we know almost NOTHING of God or His plans, all we KNOW is what we were asked to do, or to tell the people.

The other thing is that not one of us has faith any longer. We have knowledge. It is REAL!! No doubts, no questions, REAL!! We are not crazy, we are not deluded, we experienced something witnessed by others as a visible phenomanon and have proceeded with our lives doing as we were asked, in the humility that if we fail God will simply choose someone else. He is no respector of persons, no one knows this more than I and those who have experienced what I have.

I have NO RIGHT to tell anyone their faith or belief is wrong, everyone walks a different path.

The only exception to this is when violence enters the picture. Any excuse for violence against God's children to enforce any dogma what-so-ever is WRONG!! PERIOD!! We as Christians when confronted by derision are to simply walk away, not to confront it, but to not waste time and just walk away. I need no excuse to ignore the ignorant....niether do any of you. And, quite frankly you would be much better served if you learned to do just that. When asked a question in earnest do your best to answer it. When baited, stop exchanging and ignore the baiting. Do not retaliate or attempt further explanation, it is fruitless and you are simply being used by them to appear silly or stupid to others.

If you have a bone to pick with a particular poster tell them what it is, in plain human terms, do not use religion, they don't care about religion! With the exception of using it as a weapon against you!

State your case when posting religious themes and don't debate with people who are NOT interested in debating you, only trying to score points off you. Don't let them do that!

That is why there are some on here I will NOT answer questions from, I don't feel bad about this, they called it, not me.

Keep the faith, don't be dragged down, there is no need folks, really there isn't

Clergy Letter Project

Several years ago I joined a group effort to bring forward the Clergy letter Project. This is an effort by many around the U.S. and the world to educate people that the conflict between religion and Science need not exist.

Each has it’s place in the human drama and the two disciplines need not conflict with each other. In fact they can, in many instances, compliment each other in the human quest to understand ourselves and the human story.

I have assembled a sort of discussion course, kind of a seminar, that points to the acceptance of ideas rather than the rejection of them out of hand, as being mutually exclusive.

Science doe not reject anything out of hand, as to do so limits investigation into unknown, or unseen, possibilities that become visible with the passage of time and the increasing body of knowledge that time bestows on human beings as it passes.

Religion on the other hand denies the possibilities of new understandings by it’s very make up, as being the “word of God”

Which of course begs the question….”is it really??”

Now this will upset lo, even enrage some out there, but the Bible or The Qu’ran is written by men, not God!

As faithfull as they were in their attempts to bring us what God said, it still had to pass through the filters of men’s minds who were subject to the understandings of the times and culture with in which they lived!

As such, we now many thousands of years removed in time, must try and understand that, which in many cases bears little, or NO, resemblance to the way we live now.

We can see this in the way that God Himself is presented to us in the Old and then the New Testaments.

We can see it in the Qu’ran and the difference between it and the Hadiths which are a compilation of the understandings by which the practitioners of Islam see and practice their religion. The Hadith by the way, in many cases, directly contradicts the Qu’ran.

Too many times we deflect or outright reject common sense when dealing with each other and religion. Also we reject science as a threat to religion, which it is not! It can and should, augment our understandings of God and the world .

To give an example, we look at the story of creation. Science postulates the “big bang”. Religion says at first there was darkness and the Lord said let there be light and there WAS light and the Lord saw that it was good.

QUERY; Were you THERE?? No you were not, niether was anyone else!! Both disciplines tell us that, they do NOT explain why do they? As we have progressed we have come to different understandings of the world. BUT!! Are those understandings correct and why must we reject entire huge segments of humans who believe one way or the other? What does it hurt to say, “well nobody knows.” Because indeed, nobody DOES!!

Then we progress to the story of man’s formation in the Garden of Eden.

We see the elements used to create the first man and woman. Scientists tell us it occured somewhat differently but although the progression may have been different it was essentially the same process! Now if you were instructing stone age, early bronze age man, in what you wanted him to do and how to live, what would you tell him? Don’t forget culture and limits of understanding!!

We now progress to Cain and Able and here is where it REALLY gets interesting!

Cain kills Able we all know the story and is terrified that when God Sends him into the wilderness he will be killed. Roughly paraphrased, When the people see who I am, they will kill me for my brother’s death…WAIT A MINUTE HERE!! WHAT people!!?? God then says “I will put a mark on you and they who would harm you will be cursed.” WHAT ‘THEY”?? WHO will be cursed?? We’re in the Garden of eden …right? There isn’t any body else!! Oh really??? And, Cain is sent forth and travels to the land of Nod……Where the devil is NOD!! And there he takes a wife…WHAT!!?? Who is she??? Where did she come from!!?? And he and his people become the builders of cities….!!!!!! What people, what cities!!!??

Kinda sorta makes ya wonder don’t it?? Why all these contradictions…or are they really? Can anyone seriously think that men as they wrote and copied these passages never asked these questions? Of course they did! But they dared not change a word and believed that true understanding was to be found in the words contained in the stories. AND, indeed they are, but the story is allegory and THAT is the part that the teologians don’t explain to you when you are kids!

The Bible is at least 4300 years old and has within it stories that in many cases are allegory in other words to contain the true meaning within it, not necessarily the factual basis, but the parts God wants you to understand!

I have spent over fifty years doing this and many people have gained an insight and peace from knowing God and the world of man that is reconciled and complete for them. They HAVE a relationship with God that is fruitful and unquestioned. Proven in it’s entirity and blessed with their knowledge of the real world that God has provided us all with.

As science has progressed we have gained a working knowledge of how the “natural laws” work. Something we have brought forward to the miracles of modern existence we are blessed with today. Too many when hearing the words natures laws bristle at them, They are God’s laws they exclaim!! Well of course they are, God made nature didn’t HE!!!

Do you see what I mean? How easy it is to rise up in righteous indignation at what is really….. simple truth?

It is critically important to realize that they do not exclude God they help explain Him!! And, how His world works and our place in it as never before realised by humankind.

We see our place as the husbandmen of the planet today as never before with our increasing understanding of our responsibilties as human beings, to care for the place the way we were commanded to do so long ago.

With the blessings, as well as the curses of the modern world we MUST integrate all this knowledge and use it to reach forward into a future or be doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past with destructive energies now at our command that can, and perhaps will, destroy us all.

The knowledge of God is critical and the knowledge of science is critical, to accomplish all this…it can no longer be denied.

Rev. Bruce Holzrichter Sr.

QUESTIONING THE BOOK

Some one asked me a question on a different forum today and I thought that this belonged here after my answer to them. As a Christian Pastor I thought it encapsulates my feelings about why I feel what we do here is important.
Rev. Bruce....................tawodi

Questioning the contents of the Book"


From the time I was able, intelectually, to understand what I was pursuing (about twelve and a half ) I have questioned the "contents of The Book".

Why? Because of good old Reverend Bell, of the Bethany Methodist Church on Wells street in Chicago Illinois!!

He very often would explain a point of scripture in Catechism and then would give us the position of the "Roman Catholics". Now look at your foot and repeat after me, AND MEAN IT!! Ah crap!! I stepped in dog 5hit!! Now, listen to the inflection, tone, and accenting, of sylables. That is EXACTLY how he would say the words, Roman Catholic!!

As a twelve year old I knew that was wrong!! Half of my buddies were Catholic and there certainly wasn't anything wrong with them!!

So after confirmation, when my Grandmother gave me my first Bible, I went and took some of the money I had been given for confirmation and bought Harpers Bible commentary and a Bible dictionary, and began reading it all, like I would read any book.

I was told not to do that, as I could not discern the "mysteries with in the "BOOK" unless somebody told me what it meant...silly me!!

I'm almost 64 years old and have contested with many Semenarians and Pastors Priests and Rabbis in my time and with many right here on these threads. AND especially since Beginning the People of Abraham, Christians, Muslims and Jews.

When in the closing years of my life I consider how foolish we all are to concentrate on our differences, instead of our similarities, I mourne for our race of beings and our future.

It is only in knowing that we will be brought into a future that is not now understandable to us, and the mechanisms necessary to make it function are not fathomable either, that I do not despair totally.

Ever since, all those years ago, I have questioned the Book...yes I have....But I have NEVER questioned the intent, or the existence of, the inspiration for it. As the imposition of command STILL allows free will. And that is the true sign, to me, of a loving Creator, one who givess us room to make our mistakes, is standing by to pick us up, dust us off, and send us on our way to try again. That is the meaning of agape' LOVE, UNQUESTIONING, UNENDING, ALWAYS THERE, NEVER FADING, ALWAYS READY TO FORGIVE IF WE LOSE OUR STUBBORNESS AND.... SIMPLY ASK.

And that right there, is the only mystery to me. Why woulsd God do that? Well because he has that kind of love for us, that's why!!!

T